The deceased and collection debt: Weltman, Weinberg & Reis, DCM Services, Phillips & Cohen
Filed Under: Collections
Filed Under: Collections
International Herald Tribune IHT paper NY TIMES article in MARCH 2009:
MINNEAPOLIS: The banks need another bailout and countless homeowners cannot handle their mortgage payments, but one group is paying its bills: the dead.
Dozens of specially trained agents work on the third floor of DCM Services here, calling up the dear departed’s next of kin and kindly asking if they want to settle the balance on a credit card or bank loan, or perhaps make that final utility bill or cellphone payment.
The people on the other end of the line often have no legal obligation to assume the debt of a spouse, sibling or parent. But they take responsibility for it anyway.
“I am out of work now, to be honest with you, and money is very tight for us,” one man declared on a recent phone call after he was apprised of his late mother-in-law’s $280 credit card bill. He promised to pay $15 a month.
Dead people are the newest frontier in debt collecting, and one of the healthiest parts of the industry. Those who dun the living say that people are so scared and so broke it is difficult to get them to cough up even token payments.
Collecting from the dead, however, is expanding. Improved database technology is making it easier to discover when estates are opened in the country’s 3,000 probate courts, giving collectors an opportunity to file timely claims. But if there is no formal estate and thus nothing to file against, the human touch comes into play.
New hires at DCM train for three weeks in what the company calls “empathic active listening,” which mixes the comforting air of a funeral director with the nonjudgmental tones of a friend. The new employees learn to use such anger-deflecting phrases as “If I hear you correctly, you’d like…”
“You get to be the person who cares,” the training manager, Autumn Boomgaarden, told a class of four new hires.
For some relatives, paying is pragmatic. The law varies from state to state, but generally survivors are not required to pay a dead relative’s bills from their own assets. In theory, however, collection agencies could go after any property inherited from the deceased.
But sentiment also plays a large role, the agencies say. Some relatives are loyal to the credit card or bank in question. Some feel a strong sense of morality, that all debts should be paid. Most of all, people feel they are honoring the wishes of their loved ones.
“In times of illness and death, the hierarchy of debts is adjusted,” said Michael Ginsberg of Kaulkin Ginsberg, a consulting company to the debt collection industry. “We do our best to make sure our doctor is paid, because we might need him again. And we want the dead to rest easy, knowing their obligations are taken care of.”
Finally, of course, some of those who pay a dead relative’s debts are unaware they may have no legal obligation.
Scott Weltman of Weltman, Weinberg & Reis, a Cleveland law firm that performs deceased collections, says that if family members ask, “we definitely tell them” they have no legal obligation to pay. “But is it disclosed upfront — ‘ Smith, you definitely don’t owe the money’? It’s not that blunt.”
DCM Services, which began in 1999 as a law firm, recently acquired clients in banking, automobile finance, retailing, telecommunications and health care; DCM says its contracts preclude it from naming them.
The companies “want to protect their brand,” said DCM’s chief executive, Steven Farsht. Despite the delicacy of such collections, he says his 180-employee firm is providing a service to the economy. “The financial services industry is under a tremendous amount of pressure, and every dollar we collect improves their profitability,” he said.
To listen to even a small sample of DCM’s calls — executives played tapes of 10 of them for a reporter, electronically edited to remove all names — is to reveal the wages of misery, right down to the penny.
A man has left credit card debt of $26,693.77, the legacy of a battle with cancer. A widow says her husband “had no money. He pretty much just had debt.” Asked about an outstanding account of $1,084.86, a woman says the deceased had no property beyond “some tools in the garage” and an 18-year-old Dodge.
Not everyone has the temperament to make such calls. About half of DCM’s hires do not make it past the first 90 days. For those who survive, many tools help them deal with stress: yoga classes and foosball tables, a rotating assortment of free snacks as well as full-scale lunches twice a month. A masseuse comes in regularly to work on their heads and necks.
Brenda Edwards, one of DCM’s top collectors, spoke with a woman in New Jersey about her mother’s $544.96 credit card bill.
“She had no will, no finances, nothing,” the daughter said. “Nothing went to probate.” The $200 in the checking account was used for funeral expenses. But the woman also said the family “filed a form with the county,” indicating that perhaps there was a legal estate after all.
“Is anyone in the family in a position to pay this?” Edwards asked, adding: “I’m not telling you it needs to be paid at all.”
The woman reached a decision. “I will talk to my brothers and sisters and we will pay this,” she said.
Edwards has a girlish voice that sounds younger than her 29 years. “If you plant a seed and leave on a good note, they’ll call back and pay it,” she said.
DCM started a Web site called MyWayForward.com to provide the bereaved with information, tools and, some day, products. “We will never sell death. But it’s O.K. to provide things that could be helpful to the survivor,” Farsht said. Death will be the end of one customer relationship but the beginning of another.
Some survivors are surprised, and a few are shocked, that they are hearing from a collector.
Eric Frenchman, an online consultant, said a DCM agent inquired about his late father’s $50 Discover card balance before the bill was even due. Since Frenchman had been planning to pay it anyway, he emerged from the experience vowing never to get a Discover card himself.
The major deceased-debt firms say such experiences are rare. Adam Cohen, chief executive of Phillips & Cohen Associates of Westampton, N.J., said his team of 300 collectors “are all trained in the five stages of grief.”
If a relative is more focused on denial or anger instead of, say, bargaining, the collector offers to transfer him to the human resources company Ceridian LifeWorks, where “master’s level grief counselors” are standing by. After a week, the relative is contacted again.
DCM executives say some of the survivors not only gladly pay but write appreciative notes. They offered up a stack, with the names deleted, as proof.
One widow wrote that a collector “was so nice to me, even when I could only pay $5 a month a few times.” Saying that money was “so tight” after her husband died, she added: “It was very hard for me, and to get a job at my age. Thank you.”
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Collecting from the dead, how low can some debt collectors go? Would they risk even journeying into the very bowels of hell for monetary gain…what good would it do anyway? Once they got there…they would not be able to make it back to the surface of the earth. They would be trapped there! Such practices are illegal, and immoral…and lining your pockets with ill gotten money will do nothing for anyone in the long run. Collecting from the dead is just another means of which the wicked exploit the pain and agony of others. Oh no, bad debt collectors do not see themselves as wicked, but what is their definition of evil? Evil is not just someone that kills or rapes someone, but evil begins in the mind, and whatever actions that harm and exploit others for personal gain such as attempting to hold onto employment, line your own pockets…ie greed (which is one of the seven deadly sins) or to look good to others… while inflicting more pain and suffering on someone is an evil act. I have always believed that if it were lawful to do so, debt collectors would dig up the bodies of the dead and remove the gold and silver fillings from their mouths to satisfy the debt of the decedant. The actions taken by them now toward the dead isn’t much different! By doing these things they show no fear of the Almighty, and do not respect the dead, nor those left behind to mourn them. Those in this profession need to find another line of work…I would personally be ashamed to be known as a debt collector, which I am not…and never would be.
Got a call from them today. Never heard of the person before. Dont know of any family member that’s died, or why I would be contacted anyway. Only thing the same was the last name. I’m sure they’re just grabbing for anything. Researched the name and found some old lady that died at age 92 in Utah. I’ll ignore this phone call and get nasty with them if they continue to call.
and NO, I did not receive a letter like they said I did.
Jason,
Thanks for your comment. Keep your guard up in regards to these calls. If they continue to call, we advise sending a VOD letter (see blogroll on the left) even though the collector has not sent a letter to you. We advise not to talk to them at all and use correspondence.
~Next Level Credit~
do some research before you rant. this is all valid, legal collection efforts.
Dunno,
Thanks for your comment. We assume that you are an employee of one of these collectors. There has been much research on this for many years. We are especially friendly with WWR and P & C. They never validate the alleged debt.
Therefore, no VOD means no collections.
~Next Level Credit~
Why all the negativity? These agencies are offering a service to help one’s deceased relatives bills to be paid. Seems like win-win situation for all of us. We all leave some bills that need to be paid when we pass.
Jojo,
Thanks for your comment. No these agencies are not offering a service. This is not a service. This is collections. Also, the account dies with the deceased.
~Next Level Credit~
Rental mobile home park residing mother died a year ago leaving no will and no estate. Bill collectors of credit card debts owed by mother are asking for payment via mailed through her address. Mothers assets were sold, assets such as household goods, furniture etc. Even though there is not enough funds to satisfy all debts, sibling believes an attempt to bargin with these agencies should be made. Is this a wise idea, or should they just simply be left alone?
SG,
Thanks for your comment. We are sorry about your loss.
We assume the credit cards are in the collection stage. No do not bargain. Do not pay. The credit (score) issue is gone since this person is deceased.
“The people on the other end of the line often have no legal obligation to assume the debt of a spouse, sibling or parent.”
However, action needs to be taken with correspondence or this could possibly escalate and turn into a lawsuit.
Contact our office for your next steps.
~Next Level Credit~
Debts do NOT die with the deceased. The estate is fully responsible for the debts. If there is no estate then the family can choose to clear up the debts or simply say there is no way to do so. If there is an estate, then a claim is filed. Simple as that.
Rita,
Thanks for your comment. Are you a consumer or a collection agency?
Debts die with the estate. The deceased does not need a FICO score any longer. The family is NOT RESPONSIBLE for paying the ccd or the collections.
If you have further information, please contact us directly. We welcome knowledge.
~Next Level Credit~